My blog post for today is short and sweet. I think that, in America, a child should be able to wear any color or combination of colors he or she chooses on any given day. Cinqo de Mayo is not a national American holiday last time I checked. And, really? Would we send a kid home for wearing a Santa shirt on Halloween? I think not. (photo used with permission from jcolman)
Friday, May 7, 2010
On Red, White, and Blue
My blog post for today is short and sweet. I think that, in America, a child should be able to wear any color or combination of colors he or she chooses on any given day. Cinqo de Mayo is not a national American holiday last time I checked. And, really? Would we send a kid home for wearing a Santa shirt on Halloween? I think not. (photo used with permission from jcolman)
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Oooh, now your blog is getting interesting! You had to know I would respond to this one, right? (Are you sick of me yet? It's okay to say so. You're just one of the only people who I know who actually writes things to respond to!). Anyway, I digress. I can see your point. Haven't read much about the story. My only thought would be... did wearing a flag somehow signal a gang of children who were doing things that would be considered racist? Or who posed a threat to Hispanic students? If so, then it wouldn't be unlike situations where schools put dress codes in place and prohibit gang colors or other symbols on clothing that are really, at heart, a rally call to gang behavior in the schools... But that's probably a stretch, right? So then I just have to say that I think that the students' behavior is sad (to do something to specifically disrespect other nationalities/cultures is sad to me) but I would agree that they shouldn't be sent home.
ReplyDeleteNot that you asked for my opinion, apparently I just feel compelled to share it. :)
I guess I'm not sure why we would celebrate Cinqo de Mayo here anyway. I know people like to go out for margaritas that night and stuff, but its the Mexican Independence Day. We have our own. We don't celebrate Canada Day on July 1 (aka my wedding anniversary) or the Finnish Independence Day on December 6th (aka my mom's birthday). Small pockets of Finnish or Canadian people may celebrate that in America, that is fine. But, you can find a list of international independence days on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Independence_Day, which leaves very few days we could wear red, white and blue without offending someone.
ReplyDeleteIf this kid was wearing a flag shirt on May 5th and taunting the Mexican kids, sure, that is grounds for punishment for bullying, but the actual wearing of the shirt is either a coincidence or a quiet, 1st amendment right to protest the celebration of the Mexican Independence Day in America.
sometimes I think you read my mind
ReplyDeleteHmmm. Interesting. My mom grew up in Stoughton, WI, where they celebrated Syttende Mai, Norwegian Independence Day, with a vengeance every May 17. City-wide parade and everything, because there were so many Norwegian immigrants who settled there. I never thought twice about it and actually attended many of the parades. I guess I just can't wrap my head around why students would object to celebrations of diversity and culture, especially since our country is an entire country of immigrants. I can't see why one would protest, and it will always make me sad when I see things like this. But that's me. I get that I'm different than many in my views on this.
ReplyDeleteAlso, per my hubby, the school actually does have the right to put policies in place to prohibit things that would be considered detrimental to the learning environment. Apparently 1st amendment rights are severely restricted in school environments based on court precedent, so that schools can maintain environment that is conducive to learning. (I didn't actually know this until talking to Andy just now!) So, the students wouldn't have to be taunting *while* wearing the shirt, if the shirt was clearly worn to be a taunt that would induce violence. But I can totally see how this would be viewed by many as a stretch, and I have no idea if this was actually the case.
Good discussion, as always. :)
I know what Andy is talking about and agree that that is the case. Kids wearing certain colors in school only have meaning and power if we attach it to those colors. The kids in our school (a small group) wore black one day in protest of a student that was expelled or suspended. Our administrators said they were free to wear black, but not to break school rules. Nothing happened, but I fear that it would have been worse if the kids had been told they're not allowed to wear black. I know its not the same thing as the flag shirt, but another little nugget to think about...
ReplyDeleteThe Syttende Mai has become kind of more of a community block party, hasn't it? Similar to Cinqo de Mayo here in most cases - margaritas and the like. Like I said, I don't have a problem with people celebrating their heritage, I just wouldn't want to be cast away from the party if I wore an American flag shirt there.
I am okay with people celebrating their hertiage. Many families do that. Where I think it becomes a problem is when it is no longer okay to show your pride for America. I don't think there is anything wrong with having pride for your country and sharing that.
We celebrated the 4th of July when we lived in Canada and even invited people over for a party. Some people wore Canadian shirts, we had fun just the same!
As someone who lives near Stoughton and paddles in the Syttende Mai canoe race every year. Yes it's very big, yes it's community wide, yes people are very proud of their Norwegian background and yes there are still American flags flying on the street.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that the students were sent home because their t-shirts may have been "incendiary" and Mexican-American students were upset because - "We don't deserve to be get disrespected like that" I think revels a broader problem. (http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/Students-Wearing-American-Flag-Shirts-Sent-Home-92945969.html)
Living in America we should be able to celebrate both our origins and our current country at the same time. This has been called the land of opportunity for good reason. We are all decedents from immigrants from other countries, we all have different ethnic backgrounds and histories, and all of our ancestors moved here because of the opportunity this country provided. The fact that any student found the flag of his current country disrespectful, no matter the day, and that that disrespect was essentially enforced by the school district, is what I find to be sad!
Yeah, I think we mainly agree here actually. I think it probably was an extreme reaction. Do I think that students should be allowed to show their pride in America? For sure. Do I think that students should be required to celebrate Cinco de Mayo? No way. Should they be banned from wearing flag stuff most of the time? Nope. Told they can't wear flag stuff on a day that celebrates Cinco de Mayo, assuming that there are no complicating factors (e.g., racial tensions that will be exacerbated)? Of course not. None of that makes any sense. This situation *only* makes sense to me from the perspective that the school administrators must have perceived the flag wear as some sort of threat to school stability. As some sort of a call to violence. Again, much like how gang colors are banned from some schools. You know what I mean? If it was NOT that situation (and it may not have been-- the only way to know that would be to be in that school), then it really makes no sense at all. And I really can see why most people would be struck by the absurdity of not being allow to wear an American shirt in America!
ReplyDeleteBut I still do get stuck on this one point: You mentioned that the shirts might have been either a coincidence (in which case it was most definitely an extreme overreaction by the administration!) or "a quiet, 1st amendment right to protest the celebration of the Mexican Independence Day in America." What I don't understand is this: *Why* would the students protest the celebration of the Mexican Independence Day? What do they have to lose from other people celebrating their heritage? How it any different from my above description of Synttende Mai?
@ Jessie: "Living in America, we should be able to celebrate both our origins and our current country at the same time. This has been called the land of opportunity for good reason. We are all decedents from immigrants from other countries, we all have different ethnic backgrounds and histories, and all of our ancestors moved here because of the opportunity this country provided."
ReplyDeleteLove this! *So* agree! So that begs the question: Do you think the students with the flag shirts were protesting the celebration of Mexican Independence Day?
I'm not saying he did protest, but I think he could if he wanted to. I'm not saying I would protest recognizing Cinqo de Mayo, either. But, if he was protesting it quietly, without the threat or implication of violence, he has the right to do so. (although apparently not necessarily in some schools).
ReplyDeleteWhy *would* someone protest celebrating CdM in school? Because we don't live in Mexico? Allowing people to participate in their cultural heritage and recognizing a Mexican Heritage day is different than forcing everyone to participate.
One Mexican boy in @Jessie's article says that "we wouldn't do that on the 4th of July" but you can bet that if they did, they wouldn't be sent home for it (if we had school in July) because *that* would probably be considered racist.
People get "offended" too easily. If the boys wore American flag shirts purposely because it was a Mexican holiday, all they were saying is that they don't celebrate Cinqo de Mayo... that they're proud Americans. I don't see a problem here. If they wore a shirt that says "Mexico Sucks" I see a problem with that.
True, enough, Sarah. I agree with almost everything you said!:) As long as it wasn't a call to violence, I see *no* problem with wearing a flag shirt. I do *not* think people should be forced to celebrate any holidays, seriously. I think that requiring everyone to wear Mexican clothes would be nuts! And I *completely* agree that standards should be the same for everyone (e.g., if you can't wear an American flag on Cinqo de Mayo, you can't wear a Mexican shirt on the 4th of July). See, we agree on almost everything! We really do!
ReplyDeleteOne last questions though (ha! Is it ever one last question with me?) Do you think that there is a possibility that wearing an American shirt on Cinqo de Mayo *might* have had more implications than just making the statement that they were a proud American? As in, might it have possibly been a broader statement that was designed to reflect protesting Mexican immigrants in general? As in, might it possibly have been about simmering racial tensions between the Mexican immigrants and non-Mexican students? And,if so, is it at least possible that the administrators thought it would result in violence?
I am *not* saying this is the case. I'm just wondering if it is a possibility in your eyes.
Sure it's possible they were protesting, it's even possible they were looking to start a major gang war over the whole thing, I don't know, I'm not there. That's not my point.
ReplyDeleteMy point is that as a country we are treading toward protecting those who may not have our country's best wishes at heart. We don't want to exclude, we don't want to judge, we don't want to profile, and we don't want to be racist, we don't want to do or say anything that could ever possibly *offend* anyone. I won't argue that those things individually are undesirable but all together as a whole, in the context of a country (and a country with true freedom of speech, not like Canada's freedom of speech) the perspective should change. I don't think we can continue to be a great country if those who live here don't believe in it's greatness. Not saying that we should be intolerant,static or unchanging, just that pride in country and some willingness to assimilate is necessary!
And as that minor rant (sorry) relates to the students we've been talking about, I go back to thinking that it is very sad that the administration took the side of those who do not hold our country dear.
@Jessie, I'm not sure I follow... What do you mean "those who may not have our country's best interest at hand"? I'm assuming you mean the Mexican-Americans? How do you know they "don't have America's best interests at hand"? And what do you think they are trying to do to America?
ReplyDeleteAlso, How do you know they don't think America is great? How do you know they don't hold our country dear?
Just so you know...I'm really curious about your answers and not trying to be antagonistic, just for the sake of being so. I know you don't know me, so I thought I'd better clarify that! I'm truly curious about your thoughts. Thanks.
One follow up question: How do you define America's greatness?
ReplyDelete(I'll tip my hand here... I truly believe that America's greatness is, in large part, defined by our diversity. Which is why I error on the side of protecting that diversity. I'm guessing that you would perhaps define our greatness differently, so that's why I ask. I'm guessing some of our differences in views may just come down to a difference in opinion about how we define what it is that makes America great).
Do you think that a student that makes comments like some did in the articles about the disrespectfulnes of flying an American flag in the US on their cultural holiday hold their new citizenship as important as their old? Do you think that's right? I don't think it's right but it's how they feel, and so it is *their* right to feel that way, but I'm sad that those feelings are basically getting rewarded.
ReplyDeleteBut like I said I'm talking a bigger broader problem. The man who tried to blow up the car in New York. Can we agree he didn't really have our countries best interest at heart?
I'd need a whole essay on why America is great, and yes I think our diversity is a huge part of it. We don't disagree there... melt down out of little one, I gotta run sorry!
LOL...hope your little one recovered. We've had a number of those moments recently, especially since my kids have been sick AND stuck inside because of this yucky weather.
ReplyDeleteAnyway...interesting thoughts. I hadn't heard comments about it being disrespectful to fly the American flag on their national holiday. I *certainly* think that's over the top! Of course we should be able to fly the American flag-- any day! But do I think it means that value their own citizenship more than their new? Not necessarily. Do I think that feeling badly that other students specifically wore flag shirts on CdM means that they don't have our country's best interests at hand? No. I really don't think that's an inevitable conclusion that can be made. It's certainly possible. But it's not the only way to tell the story. Another read on it would be that the Mexican American students value their heritage and they want to express that. That they feel undervalued as human beings (as they probably are sometimes, if we are honest) and feel that someone purposefully wearing a flag shirt to make a point is another slap in the face of the culture that they are trying to celebrate. Or not. I wasn't there, so I really don't know. But I do think there are multiple ways to view the situation, and I do think that its dangerous to assume that such people do NOT have Americas best interest at heart, that they don't believe in the greatness of America. Like you said, it's possible to have a love of your native culture and a love of this American one all at the same time. It's also possible to love this country and still feel badly if someone purposely does something mean spirited (like wearing a flag shirt) when you are trying to show your love of your culture.
To your question about the man who tried to blow up the car in New York. Yes. I would agree that he did not have our countries best interest at heart. How does that relate?
Still want to hear your thoughts about what makes America great! (Mainly, because I want to understand why it requires flagwear :))
Sarah and Jessie,
ReplyDeleteI want to thank you both for your honest discussion on this topic. It's helped me to realize that our diverse reactions to a topic like this (and so many of the other topics we would disagree on) come down to the stories we tell ourselves when we read this. We view the event through very different lens, based on who we have empathy for and what story we tell about the events that unfolded. My story: the Mexican American students feel disrespected and put down by the mean-spirited flag wearing students and are likely justified in feeling this way given a past history of the racism and disrespect for their culture that is often a part of America itself; you: the Mexican American students are trying to purposefully disrespect our culture and the flag-wearing students are standing up for it. Both valid stories. Both empathetic. But both very different. Very, very interesting!
Ok, it's finally nap time!
ReplyDeleteI totally agree on your last comment about looking through different lenses, which is why I think this has been an interesting discussion too, and it's also part of why I think this country is great. The diversity of people bring a diversity of opinions and thoughts and we are set up to have the ability to express them in many different ways. The freedoms we have in the country make us the unique/great/land of opportunity that we are. Beyond that I think everyone can pick different favorite things out. I suspect ours may be very different :)
Thanks Becs2. I agree with your assessment. And, yes, it is possible that these were bone-head American high school boys trying to start some sort of turf war at school or something. The 'lens' I'm looking through would rather see them innocently wearing something they would have worn on any old Wednesday...
ReplyDeleteWhat does this mean Jesse "(and a country with true freedom of speech, not like Canada's freedom of speech)".
ReplyDeleteMaybe it was the kids only clean shirt left and he had no idea that what he wore might have been interpreted as rude. Sometimes people do/say things that come out rude or insulting when they don't really mean to. Like I am hoping Jesse did in her response.
Section 2(b) of the Charter states that "Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: ... freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication."
I've never known anyone here to be sent home for any shirt colour/design - I believe beer shirts aren't allowed, or shirts with pornography - is that what you mean? Is that allowed in schools in the US? Is that part of "true freedom of speech" if it was really "true" than this child, if he was really saying any thing at all (how old was he??) would not have been sent home.
Hi Christy!
ReplyDeleteNope, certainly didn't mean to offend you. But I am under the impression that our freedoms of speech do differ, correct me if I'm wrong. When Ann Coulter was supposed to speak in Ottawa and canceled her speech it was in the news a lot here. Those stories said that Canada's freedom of speech has limits on it-
"First, laws prohibit incitement of hatred of people based on their color, race, religion, ethnic origin, or sexual orientation. Second, it is illegal to communicate by phone or Internet any material “that is likely to expose a person or persons to hatred or contempt.’’ "
(from http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2010/03/27/canadas_clampdown_on_free_speech )
So if we pretend I didn't use that "true" in my statement above, which would be the offensive part, sorry. Then what I was getting at was, in Canada maybe parts of this situation could have been considered some sort of racist hate speech which I was under the impression was NOT protected by your freedom of speech. And here for better or worse anything goes.
And on a slightly different topic I would like to say that the Norwegian festival last night had American flags alternating the Norwegian flag all the way down main street.
They cancelled her talk because it might encite a riot (perhaps the same reason the kid was sent home) not because of what she had to say. Ottawa once cancelled a Barenaked Ladies concert too because of their name. I personally think that in both intinces, it was a publicity stunt, as the rest of Ann Coulter's Canadian speeches were sold out and The Barenaked Ladies became famous.
ReplyDeleteThere is no such thing as bad publicity.